You left out the part where he compared not wanting to be assaulted to opposing gay marriage. That was my favorite.
I like how the whole "project" completely overlooks the role ostracization and peer pressue within small groups may have played in pressuring women to consent to being groped.
You left out the part where he compared not wanting to be assaulted to opposing gay marriage.
Agh, I must have blacked that portion out.
I like how the whole "project" completely overlooks the role ostracization and peer pressue within small groups may have played in pressuring women to consent to being groped.
There's something to be said for how people who embrace their culturally designated identity as "nerds" don't understand - or pretend to not understand - how they can put pressure on other people to the point where you can say that they have been deprived of agency.
In fact, this whole controversy is begging for academic attention. You can write a whole thesis using theferret's wife's increasingly desperate attempts to defend the situation in the blog's comments.
My favorite commentary on it so far has been this: http://misia.livejournal.com/1055120.htmlYeah, I went from not really caring to cringing when I read "I only want people I find attractive and/or nice to want me." See, I'm very fussy about who I let touch me. Not just my breasts -- I don't want to be hugged, have my arm grabbed, my elbow fondled or my foot stepped on unless I really, really like the person. That's not even a sexual/feminist thing ... then you bring in the fact that it's men wanting to touch my breasts purely out of curiosity? Ummm, no. The attitude of entitlement about the whole thing is what annoyed me the most. Once again, it basically comes down to "guys wanna touch boobies, and women who won't let them are frigid." Feh, I say.
HA! That was great.
Once again, it basically comes down to "guys wanna touch boobies, and women who won't let them are frigid." Feh, I say.
And that really is what theferret is trying to defend, beneath all the passive-aggressiveness and pseudo-feminist logic.
This is the part that terrified me the most:
And every girl in that hallway was then asked the question: "May I touch your breasts?" They considered, and said yes. And we all did.
Congratulations! You've successfully pressured a hall full of women to consent to being sexually assaulted.
It's that he doesn't even think about their motives in "considering" that gets to the core of why his attitude is disturbing, even repulsive.
And sexual assault is totally okay at cons, as long as it's totally heterosexual!
The jokes right themselves ....
I read all this and think the world has moved on without me. And I think I'm ok with that.
And lo, we showed them how beautiful their bodies were without turning it into something tawdry.
I think it's the bad attempt sound like a Silver Surfer comic book that ratcheted the creepy factor up for me!
That was creepy as hell, wasn't it?
Well, I'm always up for the Open Source "Point Out The Guy Who Bothered You" Project.
I've invented that project!
I'm gettting serious flash backs to all of the geeky events I've ever gone to, where terribly undersocialized people desperate come up with things so they can touch one another and flop all over each other and then they proclaim it better than the "normals" systems. Generally those had an edge to them, but this really takes the cake. I'm totally fucking creeped out now.
And this sexuality is almost exclusively heterosexual. Although I have to admit, I've also been in situations where fangirls have invited themselves into gay situations and proclaimed their "radical" sexuality only to pack their things up and go home when said gay men are disgusted by their behavior.
It's like Tailhook for sci fi/fantasy Cons. Classy!
As if Cons needed that sort of thing. It's like trying to introduce White Power to a WWF match.
It's really interesting how the "bi-curious" hypersexuality of cons dries right the fuck up when I want to touch other men. Also interesting are "ethical slut" fangirls who assume gay men want to touch them just as badly as she wants to see them touch each other. ETA: And now the "ethical sluts" jump on the misunderstanding train. Right on cue, give or take a couple of hours. Edited at 2008-04-23 03:34 am (UTC)
But...but...he let a guy touch his (fully clothed) ass!
*sigh* Too many fanboys already think this way... they don't need any encouragement.
Or pseudo-feminist rhetoric.
I have to admit, though, I feel a little sad. It's like the entire world has discovered a special little place I go to in order to vent my rage.
Well, I think the fact that he's getting excoriated all over the place, faster than I can keep up with the links, is a good trade-off.
You're right. There is an indescribable joy in seeing people break through his usual wall of fawning sycophants.
But you can say you knew of and hated him before it became popular and cool to know of and hate him. I'm looking forward to seeing what new, undiscovered asshat you may talent search in the future. (Your hatred of Orson Scott Card was one of the reasons why I added your journal to my friend's list. *g*) At least ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) misia ended up doing a parodic Open Source Swift Kick to the Balls Project entry in response to theferret's post that I found really funny. At least she wasn't serious. Edited at 2008-04-22 11:30 pm (UTC)
The Open Source Swift Kick To The Balls idea is the best thing to come out of this.
And your response seems to come from a personal mindset of, "My body is something so special to me that only people I have firmly vetted and talked to and invested in should be allowed to touch those areas."
Hell to the Fuck Yes Damn Right IT IS.
Which is fine. It's a way of saying, "I only want people I find attractive and/or nice to want me," which is in fact the prevalent societal attitude.
Again: Fuck Yes. That's what I want. That is indeed what most people, men or women, want. Agency. Ownership of their bodies. Not to be exploited by a hypocrite peddling straight-up entitlement to grope as subversion. Or manipulation of a cutural norms that tell women how shitty their bodies are and subjecting them to a different kind of judgement.
You know following this path logically: my will not to be raped is just my frigidity and unwillingness to explore my sexuality.
I think we should go to a Con just to harass him while wearing "NO TOUCHING FROM UGMOS" buttons.
If you want a laugh, go to his blog and read his "apology." Jesus needs his cross back, asshole!
I unfriended ferrett a month ago so I missed this one...
...now that I know about it, it sounds like the most asinine thing the Internet has ever produced. Seriously.
--m4
Then he does indeed deserve his title of KING OF LIVEJOURNAL.
I swear to God, it's getting to the point where I see these things and the first thing I think is, "I bet Chad's making hay of this right now." It's getting kind of weird.
But, yeah. As a geek, I'm wary of the slots the media puts geek events into (here's a hint: it involves fat guys and spandex). But as a gay guy, I'm also wary of throwing out certain people because "they don't make us look good." But Jesus Christ, there comes a point where you have not just failed to recognize the social norms, you have noticed them, bowed down, and taken a shit on them. And not in a fun, meaningful way like John Waters, but in a way that's meant solely for you to feel good.
Haha. To be fair, I've revealed this guy as one of my pet hates, so it wasn't an unreasonable assumption. There are four or five people out there who, whenever they say or write something idiotic, I'll be there.
But Jesus Christ, there comes a point where you have not just failed to recognize the social norms, you have noticed them, bowed down, and taken a shit on them. And not in a fun, meaningful way like John Waters, but in a way that's meant solely for you to feel good.
It's really sad, reading his "apology", how he just doesn't get the point: that other people's sexualities don't exist just for his amusement. I guess that's why male homosexuality is completely out of his frame of reference; at least he can get off on imagining female homosexuality.
Jesus fucking SHIT.
Like some commenters said, this idea would be great among friends - hell, my place sees regular couch pileups - but it's SO beyond squicky on a larger scale. Moreso to me because I know full well why some female-bodied people use their bodies like this at cons and what they feel afterwards. Retch.
And he just CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS.
What really kills me is that he all but admits that there was a coercive element to the "fun and games", but it's completely invisible to him.
*sniffs the air*
...Is there a natural gas leak in here? Did I actually just read this, and did I also just see that IPLJer has posted a mile-long backtracking defense of his actions?
I'm one of the most sexually liberal people you'll ever meet, but IPLJer gives me the squicks.
I really think it's because, to him, other people's sexualities only exist for him and him alone. You get that vibe from everything sex-related he writes.
Why did I read Josh's post about this? Why? Christ.
Yeeeeaahh. coffeeinhell and audacian both made some really good counters though.
His comments in this case actually don't bother me as much as past things he said about Israel-Palestine and how evil religion is, but unfortunately my inner Alpha Bitch needed an excuse to come out :).
I got here via mcnsee (and am in complete agreement wrt boob debacle '08) and will add you to my flist if you don't mind...
Yayyy Damien Lewis /random | 
